Video and transcript are from CNN. My comments are in Red through out the transcript.
BLACKWELL: Pastor Jeffress, I want to start with you. Are Christians like Robertson putting too much emphasis on the issue of homosexuality even as the Pope believes that Christians should probably focus on other elements of the Christian doctrine?
ROBERT JEFFRESS, PASTOR, FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF DALLAS: Well, first of all, Victor, I’m not here to defend every word that Phil Robertson has ever spoken or will speak, but what he says about homosexuality is in keeping with what the bible teaches and what has been the understanding of Christians for 2,000 years. And that is that God created sex for a man and a woman in a marriage relationship and any deviation from that, whether it be adultery or premarital sex or homosexuality is sinful. And when Phil says that it’s unnatural for a man to be with a man or a woman with a woman, it’s a misuse of the body, he is simply quoting what Paul says in Romans 1. Now people may not agree with that. They may want to attach some new interpretation to it. But people don’t have the right to label Phil or me or tens of millions of Evangelical Christians as “hateful” because we hold a historic understanding of the bible. And what I would say Victor is, let me — let me just say this. What I would say is to say homosexuality is sinful is no more hateful than saying adultery is sinful.
BLACKWELL: But let me ask you something you said. Quote from July 2013 Your Pathway to Victory Radio Ministry, ahead of the Chick- Fil-A (inaudible) promoting on August 1st there are disproportionate amounts of sexual assault against children by homosexuals than by heterosexuals.” Where is that in the bible or in science?
Pastor JEFFRESS: Well, that is certainly borne out when you look at the general population and so forth that is true. But look —
BLACKWELL: Which (inaudible) is before we go pastor?
Pastor JEFFRESS: I’ll say, all sin, all sin —
BLACKWELL: It’s true. What is your source?
Pastor JEFFRESS: Yes. Yes I documented that in my book “Outrageous Truth”. But look the fact is we are all sinners who need God’s forgiveness. We all need the gift of forgiveness. And that’s really what Christmas is about. That Christ came to forgive all sins. And Phil Robertson has admitted in his programs that he is a sinner as well. Victor, I am no better than a homosexual or an adulterer. We are all sinners who need God’s forgiveness. He’s willing to forgive us if we’re willing to ask. But that means admitting our sins and not denying that sin is sin. The bible labels homosexuality, lying, adultery, these are all sins that we’re all guilty of in some way or another. We all need Christ’s forgiveness.
BROWN: So Frank, I want to get to you now. You know Pastor Jeffress talked about the scripture that Robertson was — was apparently referring to. You have a different take on that scripture Frank. Tell me about what your thoughts and was what he said really by what the bible says?
FRANK SCHAEFER, DEFROCKED UNITED METHODIST PASTOR: Well, I do have a different take on this. I think the holy scriptures, they are very important us to as Christians, of course. And they do talk about truth and we are trying to figure out what that truth actually is and what it means.
No false preacher, WE are not trying to figure it out. I and many others know Exactly what the word of God says and MEANS! YOU are trying to condone what God clearly says is SIN. Perhaps you need to get saved or don’t you believe in salvation either Mr. Schaefer? Mr. Jeffress points out what REAL preachers do about all SIN. Why would you not address that Mr. Schaefer? Oh and what Bible do you use to come to your conclusions, is it the Queen James Bible?
But the scriptures predominantly are there given for us for inspiration and for help. And as a minister, I just take to that approach and I’ve tried to really inspire people. So comments made by Phil and others that lump together homosexuality with bestiality with promiscuity, they’re just offensive, especially to homosexuals because that’s not a choice. They weren’t, you know, that’s not their choice. They were born this way. They were created this way.
Scripture, Mr. Schaefer comes from God, inspired via the Holy Spirit, and the word of God is for Doctrine, Instruction, reproof and correction! Seems to me Mr. Schaefer needs to have a bit of Instruction in Doctrine, with a sprinkle of reproof and correction! What part of ALL do you not understand?
2nd Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Along with homosexuality, bestiality, promiscuity that Mr. Schaefer seems to think is not sin, I will “lump” his ignorance and stupidity right in there with the other sins. What he is saying is God is a LIAR and the Bible is not true. You best repent false preacher!
And so it is totally unfair and it is very hurtful. And I think what I would like to ask Phil is, you know, who made you judge? Who are you to judge? We just heard about Pope Francis and he went on record to say who am I to judge? But who is Phil to judge?
Pope Francis is a Heretic just as you are Mr. Schaefer. I won’t post it here as its too long, but you can SEE who made us judge in the scriptures here.Is It Right to Judge others? What does the Bible say? Now of course Mr. Schaefer won’t accept those scriptures as he does not believe what the Bible says.
Pastor JEFFRESS: Could I answer that? Could I answer that?
BLACKWELL: Go ahead.
BROWN: Go ahead.
Pastor JEFFRESS: Phil is saying that — when Phil says homosexuality is a sin, he is not formulating a judgment. He is simply repeating what God has already judged to be true. And that is that homosexuality, adultery, premarital sex are all deviations from God’s perfect standard. You know he designed sex. In his instruction manual called the bible, he says this is how sex best operates between a man and a woman in a marriage relationship. And you know the bible prophesized that there will be a day coming when people will call evil “good” and good “evil”. And that’s what we’re seeing here. It is unthinkable to me that people would label Phil Robertson or Dan Cathy of Chick-Fil-A as hateful bigots because they believe that sex should be between a man and a woman in a marriage relationship. That’s simply outlandish. But that is certainly what the bible predicts is going to happen.
BLACKWELL: Well Pastor Jeffress, you bring up a good point. You talked about it many times. That we are all sinners and that one sin, as you say, is as bad as another. I want to continue with this after the break. And I’ll come back on that point.
I think this Godless Liberal even understands what sin is!!
BLACKWELL: Welcome back. We’re having a heated debate between Pastor Jeffress and former pastor now recently defrocked Frank Schaefer who was defrocked because he officiated his son’s same-sex wedding.
BROWN: He was suspended — yes. He was suspended, defrocked — and really the question is to you, Frank, you knew the parameters of the denomination when you entered it. You knew what the church taught. Why now should the rules change because you have changed?
Frank SCHAEFER: I believe that the basis for my belief is actually in the bible. You know, coming back to the former debates and it kind of ties in here as well, I think we have a choice on how to use this book that we agree is holy and rich to us. You could take lift passages out of this book and make a case for polygamy or for slavery or for sexism. But that doesn’t give us the right to use the book in this way.
Ok show me where and what scripture out of the KING JAMES 1611 Version. Are you using one of those paraphrase Bibles that lets you interpret it they way you want Mr. Schaefer? Mr. Schaefer is correct in his statement “I think we have a choice on how to use this book”. Yep, you can either accept it and abide by the whole word and believe what is says in its entirety, or you can pick and choose what you want and reject it!
You’re not supposed to use it judgmentally but we’re supposed to use it in a way that is helpful to people in their every day struggle for inspiration and for help. And so when I look at the scriptures and those passages, nowhere do I see that homosexuality is actually talked about in terms of a loving homosexual committed relationship. So my basis for my faith is biblical. And I’m saying the church must recognize that what we’re doing is actually discrimination. We treat our homosexual brothers and sisters as second class Christians.
Genesis 1:27-28, Leviticus 18:22, Matthew 19:3-12, Romans 1:24-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Jude 1:7 There are more but I think this will suffice!
BROWN: Pastor Jeffress, I see you shaking your head. Jump in.
Pastor JEFFRESS: Look, Moses said from the beginning that God’s plan for sexuality was one man and a woman and a marriage relationship. Jesus affirmed that in Matthew 19. And here’s the point. If you’re going to say that God didn’t mean what he said in the New Testament about homosexuality, that it’s okay, why don’t you legitimize? Why not legitimize lying or cheating? I mean the fact is we can’t pick and choose which parts of the New Testament that we want to believe. And I believe that that’s why the whole problem of liberalism is really hypocrisy. You know liberals in this whole debate about this “Duck Dynasty”. Liberals are saying we tolerate all beliefs except those that contradict our own.
BLACKWELL: Well, let me ask you about that. About all beliefs that contradict your own, Pastor Jeffress. Because you have said right here on CNN and the Associated Press which I read from October 2012, you can’t pick and choose which sins. There are lots of sins that are highlighted in the bible. This happens to be one that you continue to harp on. Why this sin is so offensive that you must speak out over and over about it? According to your definition of it
He is not picking what sins to talk about The HOMOSEXUALS ARE DOING IT and the media is HYPING IT!!!!
Pastor JEFFRESS: Well, that’s right. You know, in my church, I probably preach 2,000 sermons. And out of those 2,000 sermons, probably five have dealt with homosexuality. So I’m not harping on the subject. But it is a subject that is in the news right now with same sex marriage. And as a pastor and preacher of god’s word, I have an obligation to say what the bible says about this subject when asked about it. And we’re going to say without hesitation that God’s standard for sex is a man and a woman in a marriage relationship. And, again, when you depart from that, whether it is polygamy or adultery or premarital sex, all of those things are violations of God’s standards.
BROWN: All right. Frank, I want to go to you before we wrap this debate up. As we mentioned, you were defrocked from where you were but now you’ve been offered a new job. Is that right? Is it with UMC?
Frank SCHAEFER: Yes, absolutely. It’s such — I don’t even know how to describe it. It’s huge news. It’s good news not only for me that bishop from the California Conference has come out to say we are proud of Frank. We believe what he did is biblical and we do have to change our policy in the United Methodist Church.
Not only is it good news for me because it means I can continue to minister in my church, the United Methodist Church. It’s good news for the United Methodist Church because we are on a move here. There is a human rights movement under foot. I think this will lead to change soon.
Those of you who twist scripture think like and disregard what God has written will stand in judgment one day. All of the people you have led astray, their blood will be on YOUR hands and you will most surely pay dearly. This is NOT good news for the Methodist Church or any other Denomination. You are being deceived by satan. I pray that the religious blinders be cast off from everyone who has viewed this article. If you part of the same mind set that Mr. Schaefer has, I feel sorry for you and pray the bondage be broken and the scales come off of your eyes!!